Daniel 8: “Model”

A few miscellaneous observations before I leave this chapter: One thing worth remembering is that Daniel doesn’t and can’t record everything he saw in any vision. One tiny clue in this chapter is when Gabriel says, “The shaggy goat is the king of Greece…” (v.21). Actually, back in vv.5-8, it was only ever called “a goat.” Daniel, writing for us in vv.5-8, didn’t mention that the goat was “shaggy.” He knew it, but at that point, as he recorded the vision for us, he didn’t think that was an important detail to include. Speaking to Daniel, Gabriel could call it the “shaggy goat,” and Daniel knew what he meant, however, in v.21, it is new information for us.

Why is that important? Mainly, I think it’s important as we would remember Daniel, the man. Later, when he says he “was exhausted and lay ill for several days,” we may think, “Hmmm. The vision doesn’t seem that bad!” We need to remember that we’re only getting a snapshot of all that Daniel saw and, especially if it was harrowing, I don’t know if it’s even possible to truly convey the totality of that horror. It would be like going to a particularly terrifying horror film, then, upon arriving home, trying to describe it to someone else. At some point, you’d have to say, “You just had to be there.” Obviously, it was extremely upsetting to Daniel.

Speaking of Daniel, one other thought back to the opening verses, I noted that in this chapter, it is believed to be about the year 550 BC. We noted that Nebuchadnezzar had died in 562 BC, so it had been twelve years and Daniel would now be probably right around 70 years old. In the twelve years since Nebuchadnezzar died, Daniel had to survive through three complete changes of administration with one king taking over by killing his predecessor. That in itself is bad enough, but what I want to note is that Daniel probably knew all of these men.

As I’ve noted before, upon Nebuchadnezzar’s death in about 562 BC, his son, Evil-Merodach took the throne. After only two years, Neriglissar, who had married Evil’s sister, murdered him and usurped the throne. Neriglissar only lived four years, then was succeeded by his son Labashi-Marduk, who only reigned a few months before he was killed by Nabonidus. Nabonidus had married Nebuchadnezzar’s daughter Nitocris, and together they had produced Belshazzar, who is now Nabonidus’s vice-regent. My point is this – Daniel would have known Nebuchadnezzar’s son, Evil-Merodach and he would also have known Neriglissar who was Evil’s brother-in-law. He no doubt knew Neriglissar to be an evil, cut-throat opportunist, and it must have been a grief to know this man murdered his own brother-in-law to usurp the throne. Then, he no doubt knew Neriglissar’s son Labashi-Marduk and had to watch as he too was murdered by Nabonidus, another brother-in-law.

It would have been bad enough to live under this constant turnover of government, but then how awful it must have been to personally know the men involved, and that it’s all happening within the royal family – brother-in-laws murdering each other. Daniel had been able to enjoy serving for about 43 years under Nebuchadnezzar’s very effective leadership, but now he has to watch the royal family literally murdering each other as they grasp after the throne. Once again, let’s not forget Daniel, the man. He isn’t made of cardboard. It was certainly a wonderful thing for him to be called of God to be a prophet and to play such an important role in the Lord’s plans, but Daniel is still a man. It hurts very deeply to live in a veritable ocean of evil, to see the people he knows hurting each other, to see wicked men in the highest place of government.

You and me may not be such “important” people as Daniel, but we too are called to live our faith in the same kind of world, whether the evil be in our government or in the companies we work for or our schools or anywhere else. Let us not be surprised if we too seem to live in a world swirling with evil. That is our fallen world. One day, the “rock cut without hands” will smash it all and Jesus will reign, but, until then, may we realize we live in Daniel’s world – but that we too can know Daniel’s faith. He did it. So can we.

Last of all, I want to note the final words of the chapter, “Then I got up and went about the king’s business.” We’ve all heard the saying, “so heavenly minded, they’re no earthly good.” I want to suggest that people like that are not really “heavenly minded.” They may be “religious,” they may think they’re making “religion” important, people all around may be impressed by their seeming disregard for the things of this world – but whatever their “religion” amounts to, it is not Daniel’s, and shouldn’t be ours either. As great as was Daniel’s faith, please note how from chapter 1 on, Daniel was an exemplary worker. Right off the bat, he was valedictorian of Babylon U. and, in 6:5, though his enemies tried to discredit him, they themselves had to admit, “We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has something to do with the law of his God.”

It is a twisted misconception of faith that it means somehow detaching ourselves from our responsibilities in this life – like the man who sits up on a pole for years so as not to be “contaminated” by the cares of this world, or the man or woman who neglects their family to supposedly “serve the Lord.” Our responsibilities in this world are not something we need to escape in order to be “religious.” Quite the opposite, this world, with its responsibilities – our jobs, our families, our neighborhoods, are precisely where you and I, like Daniel, are called to live our faith. There is and should be a time for us to engage in “religious” activities, like the time we spend praying and studying the Word, and our involvement in our churches, but may we be like Daniel and always be faithful to our responsibilities. They “tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs (his job!), but…they could find no corruption in him, because he was neither corrupt nor negligent” (6:4). Real faith, real “religion” is to “go and do likewise.”

I’m left, once again, in deep admiration for our friend Daniel, the man of great faith who also "went about the king's business." He has modeled for us what it means to be a man of faith in a very wicked, heart-breaking world. As I keep telling myself, he did it, so can you and I.

Daniel 8: “Fractal Logic”

Before I leave this chapter, there’s something I’d like to elaborate on. This is one of those “for whatever it’s worth” things. I find it fascinating. Perhaps no one else will, but then, maybe one of my grandkids or great grandkids will stumble across this one day and, perhaps sharing some genes with me, they’ll find it intriguing as well.

All through the Bible there are instances of what are commonly called “types.” In the chapter before us, people would say that Antiochus was a type of the Antichrist. What they mean is that Antiochus resembled the Antichrist in many ways, but not all. Sort of a “pre-figuring.” I personally find the “type” thing unsatisfying. Instead, what I think we see in these instances is an expression of a logic totally unfamiliar to us in Western civilization. That logic is what I’ve come to call fractal logic. A fractal is a pattern of some kind which repeats itself a million different times and on a million different scales – but no matter how often it repeats itself, it still retains the same pattern. The pattern itself becomes the logic.

In our western culture, all we recognize is what I call “linear” logic. That is the logic of first this, then that, then this, then that. We love Roman numeral outlines, number lines, and basically anything we can lay end to end. Time, itself, is of course linear. Everyone’s gravestone needs only two dates. Accounting, in and of itself, is linear. Money adds and subtracts. However, with both time and money, is that really all there is? Is it not true that, in reality, time involves two things – its passing, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, what we put into that time as it passes. From the day our children are born, you can rest assured, as long as they live to see it, they will someday have a 24^th birthday and be grown and gone from our home. The years passed. That’s linear, but what did we put into that time, while they were home? If you ponder it a while, you’ll realize that is fractal. As we said, money adds and subtracts. If you had ten dollars and you spent four, you only have six left. Period. Very linear. Yet, what you did with that money and why is very, very fractal.

Actually, if you think hard on all of this, I believe you’ll begin to realize that the very logic of life itself is fractal. Yes, there is that linear element of time and its passing, but life itself is a repeating pattern. What did the Lord say from the beginning? “And God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind…’” Note the “each according to its kind.” What is that? A repeating pattern. All of life is that way! Sparrows produce more sparrows. Raccoons produce more raccoons. People produce more people.

And even within that repeating pattern, thinking about people, in particular, what do we see? Humans not only produce more humans, but that repeating pattern goes far beyond simple genus and species. Our children look like us, share our talents, our strengths, sometimes our vulnerabilities, and in perhaps shocking ways, simply are like us. We are all very aware of “family resemblance,” and how often a parent’s talents show up in their children. Think how often we’ve seen an amazing singer like Judy Garland give birth to another amazing singer like Liza Minnelli. We say, “It just runs in the family.”

We could go on and on, but isn’t it interesting that we can create a thing called a “family tree” and what is it? A repeating pattern of parents and children. And why can we call it a tree? Because that’s what trees do too. A tree, in and of itself, grows fractally. Its very nature is a repeating pattern. Every branch looks like the tree itself. However, an oak tree, while it has the same basic shape as a maple tree, yet doesn’t look the same. You can see from hundreds of feet away they’re different. What is that? They’re reproducing “after their kind,” just like the Lord made them to do, and that is fractal – the logic of a repeating pattern.

I suggest to you the entire universe is fractal. We look out and see stars and know there are planets spinning around them. We look in and find atoms, which are what? A nucleus with electrons spinning around it. And what does this have to do with the Bible and Daniel 8? I believe what we Westerners struggle to understand and end up calling “types” are simply the fractals of reality. And I believe if we recognized this fractal nature of things, it would help us to understand many of the elements of prophecy.

Consider this “little horn.” Scholars wrestle with the similarities and the differences between the “little horn” of chapter 7 and the one that now appears here in chapter 8. In chapter 7, Daniel says, “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully” (v.8). He continues, “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire” (v.11). Then he says, “As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom” (vv.21.22).

Finally, he says, “The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom (the beast with large iron teeth that crushed and devoured its’ victims – the Roman empire). After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey Him” (vv.24-27).

Clearly, the little horn of chapter 7 arises from the fourth kingdom, the Roman empire, from the final “ten kings” and, at this “little horn’s” destruction, we see the end of earth’s fallen history and the eternal kingdom of “the rock cut without hands” commences.

Now in chapter 8, Daniel is discussing the third kingdom, the kingdom of Greece. He sees how the great horn was broken off, “and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven” (v.8). The great horn is obviously Alexander the Great and the four prominent horns were his four generals who divided his kingdom upon his untimely death. Then it says, “Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power …” Note immediately, something is different. The little horn of chapter 7 clearly comes out of the final ten kings of the Roman Empire. Here is chapter 8, this little horn arises from one the four Grecian kings who followed Alexander. They are clearly not the same person.

Speaking of the kingdom of Greece and the four kingdoms that emerge (vv.21,22), Daniel tells us, “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power” (vv.23-26).

Both are “little horns.” Both arise to power. Both speak boastfully and persecute the people of God. Both openly oppose God Himself. Yet they are not the same man. Why the similarities while at the same time differences? Here is where I suggest we don’t need to yield to the ambiguous designation of “types.” What we are seeing is actually the fractal of evil, the fractal of evil persons who would oppose God Himself. Antiochus was in fact a smaller version of the pattern which eventually becomes the Antichrist himself, but it is the same pattern. Just as in a family, the children look like their parents, yet not the same, so in this fractal of evil, we see these two evil men the same, only different.

And from whence does this pattern emerge? Is it not Satan himself? He said, “I will raise my throne above the stars of God…I will make myself like the Most High” (Isa. 14:13,14). He has always been one who speaks boastfully and would oppose God Himself. Further, he has from the beginning been a persecutor of God’s people. And finally, his end has already been decreed.

Back to Daniel chapter 8, I believe this explains one the cryptic verses of this chapter. In v.10, Daniel is speaking of the little horn, Antiochus Epiphanes and says, “It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.” In v.11, he goes on to say, “It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.”  People puzzle over those words that “it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth…” Suddenly, the Lord seems to be talking about Satan, not Antiochus, yet then in v.11, He seems to be speaking again of Antiochus.

So is it Satan or Antiochus? The answer is yes. This is where we get confused precisely because we only think in linear logic. We think, “It has to be one or the other. It cannot be both.” And that is true…unless we are thinking in fractal logic – the logic of patterns. In fractal logic, it is as if what you are seeing first of all is the pattern. It is like looking through a telescope and seeing Antiochus, yet you can see through him and there behind him is Satan. It’s as if you’re looking through one fractal image and seeing the larger one behind it. The first one doesn’t have to be exactly like the second, but it is definitely the pattern – just like one oak tree doesn’t have to be exactly like another (and they’re not), yet clearly they are both oak trees.  In this case, I will even go so far to say that sometimes it may seem as if the Lord is speaking of Antiochus and the Antichrist and Satan, all at the same time. You see, it’s the same pattern.

If we would recognize fractal logic, suddenly there are many, many Bible passages (and especially prophecy) that would begin to make sense. In Isaiah 14:12-14, the Lord is speaking to the king of Babylon, then suddenly He is clearly talking to Satan himself. Can you see what He’s saying is that the king of Babylon is so much like Satan, you can see through him to the pattern behind him – Satan. That happens again in Ezekiel 28:11-19, where the text is addressed to the king of Tyre, yet it is clearly speaking of Satan. Once again, the same thing happens in Isaiah 42-53, where people struggle to say whether “the servant of the Lord” is the nation of Israel or Jesus Himself. Yet again, the answer is yes. It is both, because what the Lord is seeing is the pattern. That’s why in Hosea 11:1, He is clearly speaking of Israel, and yet the Holy Spirit can say through Matthew it was fulfilled by Jesus (2:15).

Especially when it comes to prophecy, I would suggest we need to recognize fractals and fractal logic. The idea of “types” has always seemed to me a feeble attempt to explain what, in reality, doesn’t make sense to us. They don’t make sense to us precisely because we only see linear logic. That’s too bad when fractal logic – the logic of life itself – is all around us all day every day. Fractals don’t just happen in the Bible, we live in a world of repeating patterns.

If we would allow ourselves to accept fractal logic when it is happening right before our eyes, passages like Dan 8:10, “It grew until is reached the host of the heavens…” won’t bother us anymore. When we ask “Is it this or that?” it is okay to answer, “Yes.” It can be both. Seriously non-linear, yet still completely logical – fractally logical. Why are the “little horns” of Daniel 7 and 8 so similar, yet different? Because they are fractals.

So, as I said in the beginning, this was just a “for whatever it’s worth.” Anyone who actually labored through it all may think I’m just nuts, but, of course, I don’t think so. I can only hope it makes sense to someone else and that you find in it, like me, a delightful new lens through which to understand your Bible – and even life itself.

 

Daniel 8: “The End”

Isn’t it interesting that, in this world, there is an “end” to things? In vv.9-12, Daniel saw how the little horn grew and all the damage it would do, then one angel asks another, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled?" The other answers, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings …” Not 2,301. Not 2,299. 2,300, then it will end. If the Jews suffering under Antiochus Epiphanes read and understood this prophecy, it had to be of some comfort to know the Lord had already decreed its end!

Gabriel told Daniel “the vision concerns the time of the end” (v.17) and “the appointed time of the end” (v.19). In his explanation of the vision to Daniel, Gabriel tells him that “little horn” “will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power” (v.25). “He will be destroyed.” Back in chapter 7, Daniel said, “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and it body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire” (v.11). There will be an end.

It strikes me as I think about this that we probably don’t realize what a blessing it is to always know, when it comes to evil and suffering,  there will be an end. What I mean is, when it comes to anything evil, like the angel we know we can ask, “How long?” In other words, we live knowing anything evil will end. I’m not entirely sure why that is such a given in our hearts. It might be part of the image of God in us, to just know that evil “doesn’t fit.” However, wherever it comes from, it certainly gets reinforced by Biblical prophecy. Even in the great scheme of things, Rev. 20:10 tells how finally “the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” As much evil as Satan has done in this world, yet we live our Christian lives knowing the day will come when he no longer will “roam the earth, seeking someone to devour.”

As early as chapter 2 and Nebuchadnezzar’s vision, although earthy kingdoms would rise and fall, yet Daniel told him, “the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed … this is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands” (v.44,45). In chapter 7 we saw “One like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; … His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and the kingdom is one that will never be destroyed” (vv.13,14).

The ”Blessed Hope” of the church has always been the Second Coming of Christ. It is a blessed hope because of all it will mean – “a new heaven and a new earth, in which dwelleth righteousness.” It will be the beginning of endless happiness and that world where “there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain.” What I’ve never really thought about before is how much it is a blessing not only for what then begins, but also for what ends.

I’m wondering in my heart, if a person refuses to believe in God, if they really believe we are all just the product of some totally arbitrary evolutionary accident, if there is no good God sovereignly ruling over this universe, then what assurance can such a person have that suffering and evil will ever end? Once again, the BIG lesson of the book of Daniel is that “the Most High rules in the nations of men.” Here we see that is important precisely because we can live assured that suffering and evil will end. There is nothing arbitrary about our world. Our God reigns. He may, in His infinite wisdom, allow evil for a time, but it is only for a time. It will end. “How long?” the angel could ask.

Another thought occurs to me – I’ve been pondering for some time God’s judgment on sin, which is, of course, death. “The wages of sin is death.” “The soul that sins, it shall die.” To Adam and Eve He warned, “In dying, you shall die.” Death, of course, is a horrible reality in our world. The pain of losing loved ones and friends is almost unbearable. The book of Job calls it “The king of terrors.” However, once sin has entered the picture, it strikes me that death is the most merciful possible judgment. As we’re seeing here in Daniel, there needs to be an end! We’ve all known people of whom we could almost lament, “They lived too long.” These Adamic bodies need to die. Once sin enters the picture we are dying. It is a most merciful judgment that, at some point, we are allowed to simply die. Sadly, for those like the devil who will never submit to Jesus’ reign, there needs to be a time when they will be sent “somewhere else,” and hell is appropriately called “the Second Death.” As the Lord warns in Rev. 21:8, “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” While, like Jesus, we try to love everyone while we’re here, the fact is, it will be a blessed relief to be in heaven where we will never again have to deal with people who are simply being evil. Death is in fact a very merciful judgment because, from the very beginning, the Lord arranged that there, in fact, should be an end.

Daniel’s prophecies certainly prepare us not to be surprised as we see earth history unfold. That, in itself, is probably a far greater blessing than we ever realize, but they allow us also to pause and praise our God that there will be an end. Suffering, cruelty, injustice, pain, lies, sickness, and all the other expressions of evil in our world will end. May these thoughts help us to be people of hope, to be patient in our trials, and to never forget that “our God reigns!”

Daniel 8: “Daniel, the Man”

We would have much to learn, I believe if we simply stopped and pondered Daniel himself, Daniel the man who in this chapter is being given a vision of the earth’s future, seeing and hearing angels speak, and being deeply affected by it all.

As we noted earlier, v.1 tells us this was the 3^rd year of Belshazzar. I said then, “This is believed to be about the year 550 BC. Nebuchadnezzar died in 562 BC, so it has been twelve years and Daniel would now be probably right around 70 years old. In the twelve years since Nebuchadnezzar died, Daniel has had to survive through four complete changes of administration with one king taking over by killing his predecessor. Finally, Belshazzar’s father Nabonidus killed the third one and took over, then left his son in charge of Babylon while he tended to other matters in the kingdom.”

So let’s get that in our heads – our friend Daniel is about 70 years old. He has spent his life front and center through what the Jewish people call “the Babylonian captivity.” As a young man, he was ripped away from his home and his family at the fall of his own nation. He has served in high government positions in none other than the city of Babylon, the very epicenter of evil in this material universe. Since Nebuchadnezzar passed, he’s watched four times as one man kills another so he can be king. By this time, no one needs to tell Daniel that human governments are evil.

As we read that Daniel is here allowed to see a vision, let’s not glibly skip along thinking, “Gosh, I wish I was a prophet! Wouldn’t it be cool to be Daniel!” Daniel has lived a very hard life. My personal admiration for him as a man only grows with every study I do in this book, that he could pull off being such a godly man not in Israel, but in the very epicenter of evil – the city of Babel! And now, we see that even the vision he receives is very painful for him, yet he goes on.

What does he see? First of all he sees what we’ve already noted, the evil and violence of human government. He’s certainly seen it swirling around him! Now, what he sees is that, if anything, it only gets worse. He sees the ram butting. He sees the goat violently attacking the ram. He sees the goat’s kingdom divided into four. He sees the little horn rise up to persecute the people of God. Those are awful things to see!

For myself, I definitely feel his pain. One of the things I cannot bear to see is photos and documentaries on the Holocaust. I’m glad for now at least we still have a historical record of that horrific, cosmically shameful chapter of human history. However, I can’t bear to see it. If I do, it takes me three days to shake off the melancholy and downright depression I’m left with. It is painful to see this world’s cruelty, to see the abuse of power and position, to see the violence and murder that invariably goes on. Daniel has seen plenty of it first hand. Now he has to see it looking into the future.

Then, as has happened before, Daniel is allowed to see into the cosmic spiritual battle which swirls around us. He actually sees, hears, and interacts with angels! At this point, I want to pause and note that you and I need to “see” those angels too. What I mean is that what Daniel is seeing is real. It is reality. We are surrounded by angels, both good and bad. We may not be able to see it with our own eyes, but, knowing our Bibles, we can and should be very aware that world is swirling around us. For me, following Daniel around like this does help me to see that world, to be reminded it is there, and that it is profoundly affecting this world we can see.

I’m trying to see all of this through Daniel’s eyes. What I mean is that, as I said above, much of what he saw then as a prophetic vision is for us now a matter of recorded history. We know all about the Medes and Persians and how they ruled the civilized world from about 539 BC until about 330 BC. Then, too, there is no missing the imagery of Alexander as the goat with the prominent horn racing across the face of the earth without touching the ground, crushing the Persian empire, only to die his untimely death in 323 BC. Then his kingdom was divided amongst his four generals, eventually giving rise to Antiochus Epiphanes and his terrible persecution of the Jewish people.

My thought is that, as I read the prophecy, it’s just like, “Oh, yeah. Of course …” However, I have to stop and remember, that is all future to Daniel. He knows no such history. I know the goat’s name is Alexander. Daniel does not. He needed Gabriel to tell him the two horned ram was the kingdom of the Medes and Persians. He certainly needed someone to tell him the goat was the king of Greece. Daniel, having seen Nebuchadnezzar’s vision from chapter 2 (with the silver arms and chest) and his own vision from chapter 7 (with the bear lifted up on one side), may have already suspected the Medes and Persians might soon conquer Babylon (the head of gold/the winged lion). He wasn’t stupid. Since Nebuchadnezzar died, he no doubt could see the Babylonian empire rapidly declining, while the Medes and Persians were at the same time rapidly ascending. Remember too he worked in some very high position in the Babylonian government, so he would be well informed of political developments occurring all around him.

I wonder what it was like to be Daniel and to see his own nation rapidly declining and knowing it was soon to be conquered? Of course he is 70 years old, which has somewhat of a stabilizing effect, but still, there would naturally be the fear of “What will that mean for me?” Kings often simply executed everyone in the conquered kingdom’s government. I feel some of that fear watching America plummet under the current totally crooked leadership, especially as we watch China constantly ascending and knowing Bible prophecy and where this world is headed. The thing is, I don’t know exactly how all of this is going to play out. Daniel, as he sees the vision, and as Gabriel explains it, knows clearly that, as he probably suspected, it was only a matter of time and yes, the Medes and Persians would conquer Babylon.

Interestingly enough, what did it mean for Daniel? We know from chapter 6, when the Medes and Persians did in fact conquer Babylon, he not only wasn’t killed, but instead was elevated to be Darius’s prime minister! That reminds me that you and I don’t have to worry either. Our nation may fall. Someone else, probably China, may conquer us. What will that mean for you and me? The natural response is to fear. However, we must remember the BIG lesson from the book of Daniel: The Most High rules in the nations of men! The God we trust today will be there in all our tomorrows – even if that includes our nation falling around us. “I’ve been young, and I’ve been old, yet, I’ve never seen the children of righteous begging bread.” Like Daniel, even in a falling nation, whether his Judah as a young man, or his Babylon as an old man, the Lord could always assure him, “The plans I have are to do you good and not to harm you.” Our world may fall apart, but our God still stands strong, wise, powerful, good, and kind to us in it all. Daniel could trust Him. So can we. As David Jeremiah said in his book Hope, “We find true stability in this unstable world only when we trust in God” (p.69).

So, as we read, let us be reminded that to Daniel, basically this entire vision concerns future events. As I pointed out in an earlier post, it is cryptic in many ways even still to us, but, as we read, we need to remember that for Daniel, as he describes it later (v.27), it was to him “beyond understanding.”

This actually brings me to my last point, that I think there is much to learn simply from Daniel, the man. Remember Daniel is just that – a man. He may be a prophet and a man of great faith, but he is still just a man. As all of these events swirl around him, he isn’t made of cardboard. He doesn’t somehow just float over it all in ethereal bliss. Remember from chapter 7 how that vision affected him. He said there, “I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this” (v.15,16). He concluded chapter 7 saying, “I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself” (v.28).

Now, in chapter 8, given this second vision, he says, “While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man (Gabriel) … As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate …” (vv.15-17). He concludes this chapter saying, “I, Daniel, was exhausted and lay ill for several days … I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding” (v.27).

I love how in chapter 7 he said, “I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this” (v16), then here in chapter 8 he says concerning the ram, “As I was thinking about this …” (v.5), then he adds, “While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it …” (v.15). I love Daniel’s curiosity. He wants to understand. If there is someone around he thinks can help, he goes and asks them! When it comes to the things of God, may we all be found like Daniel – incorrigibly curious! We are only finite, created beings, limited people, just like Daniel, but our God is the Creator Himself – infinite and utterly beyond our understanding. 

We are like a blind man, lying on a beach in Virginia, and longing to know all there is about America. As he lies there, he may know there is the sand beneath him, he hears the sound of the surf behind him, and perhaps birds chirping. However, how could he ever dream of what the very expanse of America holds, the mountains and valleys, the plains, the rivers and lakes, the woodlands and so much more? He could wander this country for literally millennia and still not know it all. Then assume one day he suddenly receives his sight! He would have to start all over and spend more millennia just to take in the sights of every square inch of this vast land! However, realize his task is much simpler than seeking to know God. We know so little, really – only what He has chosen to reveal to us – and just to truly know all the Bible has revealed to us about Him is probably the task of millennia in itself.

Fortunately for us, the incomprehensible God has, in fact, revealed much to us, but that knowledge will only be granted to those who actually seek it. It should come as no surprise that Daniel learned much. He sought it. “My son, … if you call out for insight … and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. For the Lord gives wisdom and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding” (Prov. 2:1-6). May we all be students of the Word and seek the Lord like Daniel did.

However, let us note too, that the understanding of God and the things of God may not always leave us skipping down the church aisle singing praises. To see the truth here may be very ugly and devastating. While others console themselves about the “inherent goodness of man,” we see instead the awful cruelty that pervades the homes and communities and businesses and governments of this world. Like Daniel, as we understand our Bibles more and more, we’ll see in this world less and less of the gold and silver and more and more of the voracious beasts!

See how it affected Daniel. We see him at the end of this vision “exhausted and ill for several days.” That is Daniel, the man. If you and I would know his faith, we should expect that, one way or another, we’ll also know his sorrow. We saw these things back in chapter 7 and here we are again. Jesus was “a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.” I think we need to embrace what is perhaps a more mature expectation of faith – that, yes, it will bring us great blessing – love and joy and peace – but, “it is enough for a disciple to be like his Master.” If we would know God’s heart, then how could we see the brokenness of this, His beautiful world, and not know grief?

Yes, Daniel is a real man. He’s real like you and me. May we not get so fascinated with the prophecies he recorded that we fail to learn all we can from the man himself.

Daniel 8: “Realistic”

Chapter 8, like chapter 7, is highly instructive to us. In these prophecies  of Daniel, we are allowed to see the entire sweep of human history from 605 BC to the end. Essentially, we are allowed to see what only God and angels could possibly know. It is interesting to me that, in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream from chapter 2, he saw that sweep of history as precious metals, starting with the golden head. Isn’t that just like us? We want to think we’re very important, that what matters in life are the things that sparkle. However, what does Daniel see? Beasts. From what the godly man Daniel sees, what do humans become when you give them power? What are their “great” kingdoms? Beasts.

Step back and think about it. In chapter 7, what came up out of the sea? Four beasts (v.3). In v.5, the second beast was told, “Get up and eat your fill of flesh.” In v.7, the fourth beast was “terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.” In v.8, the little horn arises first by uprooting three other horns, then in v11 we see it “waging war against the saints.”

Violent and destructive. Government without God

Now what do we see in chapter 8? We first see the two horned ram and what is he doing? “Butting to the west and the north and the south.” Note it says in v.4, “He did as he pleased and became great.” Notice the “he became great.” We’ll come back to that. In v.5, the goat with the prominent horn races across the face of the earth and what does he do? “I saw him attack the ram furiously … shattering his two horns, knocked him to the ground and trampled on him” (v.7). If anything, the goat is even more violent than the ram had been. Note again it says, “The goat became very great …” (v.8).

Finally, we see the little horn. It “started small but grew in power.” So we see again, the kingdoms of this world “become great,” They “grow in power.” And what do they do with that “greatness?” What do they do with that “power?” See what the little horn does: “It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low … It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground” (vv.10-12).

Government without God is evil. Men without God may, under common grace, manage to do and be some good things, but there lingering under it all is their true nature: evil. As Jesus said, “They are of their father the devil, and the lusts of their father they will do. He is a liar and the father of lies. He was a murderer from the beginning. Like a roaring lion, he roams the earth, looking for someone to devour.”

In the book of Esther, the king and his prime minister agree to slaughter an entire people group of their citizens, then sit down to drink (3:15). Joseph Stalin in the Soviet Union reportedly murdered millions of his own people, as did Mao Tse Tung in China. It is reported that as many as fifty million people died under and due to Adolf Hitler.  James said, “Then, after (evil) desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death” (1:15). So governments become “great” and what does it get “we the people?” Murdered. As governments become great, what do they do? Attack each other. Always fighting. Always killing.

It’s interesting that the only government ever assembled by men who were at least acknowledging God was a government designed to be what? Restrained. The framers of the American Constitution had the Biblical wisdom to know that human government must be restrained. They built their system of “checks and balances” precisely because they knew the only alternative would end up being one form of tyranny or another.

As I have observed before, one problem us older American Christians have is that we got to grow up in a country where we believed the government really was trying to do us good and to protect us. Our government even told us we had rights – the “inalienable rights” of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” For us, it is a very deep heartache to see what our government has become. More and more they suppress those “rights” and we can rest assured, it is only a matter of time before they start killing those of us who don’t buy their lies. That is what we see all down through recorded history and it is precisely the picture Daniel is seeing, even as he is given a vision of what the world would become.

As ugly and dark as it may appear, we Christians, of all people, ought to embrace realistic views of this world. It is right there in our Bibles. Government without God is, has been, and always will be violent, warring, and murderous. It is evil. However, we also know why they’re so evil, why that is the direction all human government heads. “We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph. 6:12).

The true problem is not a political party or a few particularly evil people. The problem is spiritual.  The problem of evil human government is simply an expression of the cosmic spiritual battle that is raging in the universe around us. There may be some things we can and should do here on earth. Christians should vote, even if it is obvious the elections are being rigged. Some Christians should pursue careers in government. Even if we know it is a “hive of scum and villainy,” there can still be the Daniels and Esthers, the Josephs and Nehemiahs, those who attain high positions in government and from there sincerely try to do good in this world. However, we of all people need to be the ones praying. We of all people should be the ones living a life of love and a life of truth, so that, even as others suffer under their unjust government, perhaps they can see a difference in us and maybe even “come and ask a reason of the hope that is in you.”

We simply need to be realistic, then live our lives under God even as a very wicked world swirls around us, even as nations rise and fall and one evil person after another becomes “great” only to turn and use that “greatness” to do even more evil.

The good news is that, even in this wicked world, our God is still working “all things together for our good” (Rom.8:28) and the day will come when the “stone cut without hands” (Dan. 2:34) will smash this world’s evil governments and establish His kingdom of righteousness.

Let’s be realistic about what this world truly is even as we know Psalm 33:20-22:

“We wait in hope for the Lord;

He is our help and shield.

In Him our hearts rejoice,

for we trust in His holy name.

May Your unfailing love rest upon us, O Lord,

even as we put our hope in You.”